The New Road

I'm sure you can find the answer to this much more easily than I can:

What percentage of US Soldiers call themselves Republicans v/s Democrats? And also, how did they vote in 2004?

Too busy to look deeply into it, though I did Google around a bit.

Despite what you may think I remember in times past that the spit in the military is very similar to that in the civilian population.

What people forget is that the military has two faces. The fighting force that we are all familiar with, and that back office, administrative, corporate side. That side is actually very large. Even with all of the privitization.

Check this out:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/top10/05/203_map2.jpg

It's a map of the Iraq war dead with the red/blue map superimposed.

That being said, who is in the military now has now has little to do with those who aren't in the military who simultaneously talk up the war but are unwilling to fight it. These people are called Chickenhawks and I think the Republicans have a vast majority in this category since most Republicans (currently 60%, down from the high 70s) support the war and yet recruiting is down by 40% off of historical levels.

Would you send your children to war if they were 18 today?

BTW, if your contention is that no Democrats serve, then by doing that you are aligning yourself with Rove, which means you should be informed by this excellent site:

http://takeittokarl.blogspot.com/

There are many, many postings there along the lines of this:

"I recently returned from a six month tour in Iraq and Kuwait. I'm proud to be a soldier and a Democrat. Your unfounded slur against liberals insults all of us who serve in uniform and hold progressive beliefs. I ask that you do the right and honorable thing and apologize for your comments."

I support our men and women in uniform and I have thanked them and continue to thank them for making significant sacrifices, and all too often the ultimate sacrifice. That does not mean that I support this President or this war. I claim that right as an American and as a patriot.

Amazing. All of that and you still didn't answer my question. Are you considering running for office? You may make a good politician.

I thought I had. I was unable to find any direct metrics of party affiliation in the military. I am under the impression from articles that I have read that, as I mentioned, the party affiliation runs the same in the military as it does in the rest of the country. Pretty much 50/50.

You should run as well, since you ducked the question of whether you would send your kids to war. I would think it would be an easy 'YES!' for you since you are such an ardent supporter of your beloved ruler and his holy crusade against the infidel.

I remember hearing that the stats were very highly in favor of the president during the previous two elections. I would still like to see the official stats, though.

If either of my children would choose the military as a career, I would support them. Wring my hands and pray - hope that they would choose a different career path - but if that was what they honestly felt their calling was, I would support them. Although, I seriously doubt they would go at 18, because they'd be in college until they were 22 and enter the military as officers.

Would you?

Since your request is not germane to the point of the original post I recommend that you search for that data yourself. I spent a couple of minutes on it, couldn't find much and then fell back on my recollection.

If your point is that Republicans are serving, then you missed my point. Chickenhawks are Republicans that are not serving, have not served and support the war and encourage others to fight and die in their place. My point has nothing to do with the Republicans and Democrats who fight and die with honor in all of our wars.

As to whether I would send my child to Iraq to fight this war. Certainly not. No way in hell. This war is illegal and a baseless debacle.

I myself would have fought and died in Afghanistan to go after bin Laden. And if there were a way where people could register to go find and kill Osama bin Laden (the man who attacked us), with the assurance that they would not be redirected to other debacles (like Iraq) then I'm sure hundreds of thousands would sign up, myself included.

It's impressive to me how the Republicans have co-opted 9/11 when, in reality, they have done almost nothing to find and kill the people that were actually connected with it. Osama is still on the loose and Porter Goss said that he knows where Osama is but that we won't get him because of state sovereignty issues. Which is insane. Just like we should have on 9/12, we should send in a special forces team, pop the guy, and get out.

But you really didn't answer the question. If you had an 18 year old boy child and he asked you today, "Mom, should I sign up to fight in the infantry in Iraq?" What would you say, "Absolutely . Go today." or, something more nuanced.

What I hear in your reply is nuance. Which leads me to believe that you actually don't support this war. That, like me and the majority of Americans, you now see that this is a Vietnam style quagmire that will end in piles of dead bodies, chaos, bitter veterans and a divided public.

I would rather my kids choose a less dangerous occupation than military at wartime. But to put my children in that kind of hypothetical situation just isn't realistic. Of course my answer is nuanced. It's not a black or white, yes or no kind of question. It's hypothetical. I have pre-schoolers. And I'm their mother.

However, my husband was enlisted in the Army. My father was enlisted in the Marines. Three of my cousins served in the Marines during the first Iraq war. My best friend in high school also served in that war in the Army. Mark's Best Man from our wedding just returned from serving in this war. My former co-worker Brett was called up just this month to serve in this war.

To equate my hesitation to send my kids to fight with my agreeing with you about Iraq in general is so very wrong. You couldn't be more wrong.

I support this war because I support the vision behind it. That spreading freedom and democracy only benefit us in the long run.

As for Chickenhawks - again, they exist on both sides of the aisle. You are so harsh and judgemental, though, on anyone who doesn't agree with you. It boggles my mind how you can think that you and your party stand for tolerance.

The military has standards, you know. They're pretty strict on certain age and health issues. Just because someone is not physically serving doesn't mean they don't want to.

You support the 'Canes, but did you ever play college football?

You wouldn't have been able to enlist and go to Afganistan after 9/11 even if you HAD wanted to and tried. You're too old. However, I'm sure you're not the only one who feels the hunt should be more intensive in Afganistan. You could organize your hundreds of thousands of like-minded lefties into a militia and go search yourself. If you really wanted to. Y'all could find him, kill him and return heroes.

My sister served, my brother-in-law served, my father served, my grandfather served. Let's not get into a pissing contest about which family served with more distinction. Just because I'm a 'leftie', and my family are 'lefties', doesn't mean we don't love and support this country with our lives just like 'righties'.

As to my 'harshness'. What happened to your 'moral clarity'? Isn't this a black and white issue? Isn't this 'your with us or your against us'? How is it that when you are accusing me of being a traitor you can draw such hard lines about what it means to be a patriot, but when I talk about you sending your kids to war, or going over with the USO, or Abu Ghraib or election fraud suddenly your nuance is ok. And my asking for 'moral clarity' is 'harsh' and 'judgemental'.

The disparity here is clear. While you like this war and would gladly send the children of other to do the fighting, you would not do so yourself.

As to football. My ability to serve and such. The willingness of people to serve. The kids they were talking to in the article I pointed to could serve, but don't. The people in the White House that you love so much, they were the right age at the right time and found ways to dodge the draft or avoid the fight. They are Chickenhawks. Plain and simple.

Fact of the matter, three times as many Republicans love this war and agree with the 'vision' as Democrats. But somehow recruiting is down 40%. They can walk the walk but they can't talk the talk.

As to 'lefties' killing Bin Laden. I would LOVE that, believe me. And I have thought about floating a petition that say that if the Iraq was is abandoned and there was assurance that the war would be taken to Bin Laden and no further that the undersigned would pledge to sign up for the fight.

Actually, your wrong by the way. I would be elligible for the special services draft despite my age and weight. They would use me for IT or software or some such. The military is fairly high tech. My understanding is that the special services draft goes all the way up to 40.

And on another note. Who goes to war on a vision? What is that? We can't just call a war based on a whim or a 'vision'. We had reasons. There are laws. The laws were violated. (Yet another thing that you won't hold your President accountable for.)

I never called you a traitor.

Frankly, you did. Whether you decided to take the final step or not, even saying that I "aided and abet" the enemy was the most hurtful thing that anyone has said to me in the last five years. And you call me harsh... And what's more, I hadn't even protested at that point. I had simply not agreed with this war, the same way that 68% of Americans now do. Are 68% of Americans traitors Jacqueline? Really.

I'm an American, whether you like that or not. And while you believe that patriotism means following a Republican President right or wrong, I do not. In fact, I think that is the opposite of patriotism. This is not a dictatorship. Public support is not a given and that is by design. Your beloved second amendment is just what you say it is, a check against a government gone awry. And the founders didn't give those kind of rights to a populace they believed should behave like sheep.

I take my role in the American political conversation very seriously. It troubles me every day that I can't fully support this war. I really wish I could, but I spend a lot of time reading about it and I've come to the conclusion that, like Vietnam, the longer we stay is only the more bodies we will bury. That, in the end, we will come up with some hoops for the Iraqis to jump through, then leave. The media will leave as well. And, just like Afghanistan, the country will fracture and turn into chaos and few Americans will know or care. And we will have turned what was a reasonably stable non-threat into a dangerously chaotic breeding ground for terrorists.

I know you think that calling people traitors is funny, Jacqueline. Just like Ann Coulter. She is such a hoot. But real people face the decision that you call 'hypothetical' every day. And real people have to decide whether or not to let their children die for the President's mistake. Instead of answering the question seriously, you avoid it. Why? These are not jokes. These are not hypotheticals. Men and women die there every day on both sides, and many more a seriously wounded.

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, Jack.

Not, "I'm sorry if what I said offended you". I am sorry I hurt your feelings.

On that note, I said you were too old to enlist - not be drafted. And I was not referring to your weight at all when I said the military has physical requirements. My brother, from the time he was a little kid, wanted to be a pilot like my dad. He was not able to get into the Air Force because two bones in his neck were fused. Honestly, it had nothing to do with your weight. Lots of recruits lose weight in basic training anyway. That was the furthest thing from my mind.

That being said, I still - to this day - believe that all of the negative press and US-bashing and using a microscope to broadcast to the Arab world every wrong turn or magnify any disagreement is not only hurtful to our troops overseas, but also results in more bloodshed and more anti-American sentiment and ultimately more death.

The war effort, the War On Terrorism is the right thing to do. The majority of Americans support it. And the majority of Americans elected this president to continue it. In general, we trust this administration, which is not one man, but a team, to lead the effort and to make the best possible decisions with the information they have.

I was not being glib or flippant. I don't think what you're doing is funny. I think it's terrible. I think you are undermining the effort. Not that you don't have a right to do it, but that it's the wrong thing to do.

And I don't follow my president blindly just because he's Republican - which is my standing grievance with you. I believe in what he's doing. It's a serious mission and just like everyone else (or 68% of people accoriding to you), I question the way it's being done. I'm watching it every day, just like you are. But the difference between us is I'm trusting that we have good intentions and that we are trying to fight the good fight. I see you as picking apart every decision and criticizing every action and throwing up your hands in disgust that it's not being done your way. Or the way your guy would have done it. Or the way it should have been done if we could've looked in a magic 8-ball to see all possible routes and chosen the correct one. You said it yourself. After your extensive research, you already have us defeated. You can't see us victorious. I can.

The terrorist breeding grounds already existed. That's why we were attacked. We have got to change the Arab world's view of us. And before you say it, yes, I think this is the way to do it.

War is the worst possible thing for a people to go through. It's impossible to wrap the mind around the full scope of it. I'm not for it. But I believe it was/is necessary.

And I'm very familiar with the Second Amendment and why it was included - thanks, though.

And I did answer your question. If either of my precious children chose the military as a career, I would support them. Wring my hands, pray hard and cry a lot, but I would support them if they felt it was their calling. But to think that they could be sacrificed for people like . . . .

I'm done.

"The terrorist breeding grounds already existed. That's why we were attacked."

Come on, you know better than that. Please don't tell me that you actually link 9/11 with Saddam Hussein. Don't you read the reports? You have said in the past that Saddam Hussein was not involved with 9/11.

I can't believe you 'trust' this guy? Are you serious. Where are the WMDs? Why is Osama bin Laden on the loose? How is it that the insurgency was so underestimated? What is the plan to finish the war in Iraq? How do we re-secure Afghanistan after letting it fall back into the control of the Taliban? What about the Downing Street Memos? What happened to uniting and not dividing?

Amazing. Every day more news comes out that shows that this President is incompetent and you just bury your head deeper in the sand. Because he can't be bad. He is a _good Christian man_.

So because I see the truth, that things are only getting worse and we are losing the war and I want to bring the troops home, I am now undermining the effort, and I'm a traitor. And because you will send other people, and other people's children to war in your place, you are a patriot.

You question the way it's being done? Give me one way that you disagree with how the war is being prosecuted.

You know, I think I finally get it. I finally understand what you are talking about. Where I come to the party with facts and studies, you come, with Faith.

And I don't follow my president blindly just because he's Republican - which is my standing grievance with you. I believe in what he's doing... But the difference between us is I'm trusting that we have good intentions and that we are trying to fight the good fight. ... You can't see us victorious. I can.

Believe in it... Fight the good fight... Trusting that we have good intentions...

It's not about facts. It's not about reality. It's not about logic. It's about having Faith in God and the Republican party.

Yeah, we are done. Your right. There is no convincing you. The bodies will stack up until the stench rolls through the street like thick fog. And still, you will look upon this as "God's mysterious plan".

You, like your President, live in a fantasy world where the great white army of Christianity will cleanse the World on the heathen infidels; atheists, gays, and muslims.

"Onward Christian soldiers marching off to war!"

Oh well, sooner or later reality will settle in. It always does. If you ever find your way out of your golden laced fog just let me know and I'll bring you up to speed on how shit happens in the real world.

Why even bother debating the facts? All you have to say is the "Good Lord will provide", "Faith conquers all", or "God works in mysterious ways", and that will say it all.

Yeah, I finally get it. Obviously I don't _get_ it. But I get it.

You are so right. Not _right_ like I am, but right on this issue.

We are completely different animals. Unbelievable, since we're both homo-sapiens, but where you believe science can and/or eventually will answer every question, I still see some things as mysterious and beautiful in their mystery.

We approach life from opposite poles, which is probably why we have never gotten along.

Just so you know, though, in our whole blogging banter, I have been accused (rightly) of pre-judging you. Assuming things about you just because you hold a political belief. You embody "THE LEFT" to me. From your crazy diatribes on religion and conservative thinking, which are directed to me, I gather that I embody what you can't understand about "THE RIGHT".

We will never see eye to eye, but isn't it great that we can tolerate each other and still live together in this great country?

God bless America.

If she exists, I certainly hope she does.

:)

See you soon!