The New Road

First - What's a theo-con? I haven't heard that one before. Is it the freaks who want a theocracy who happen to be neo-cons?

Second - You're so lucky you live in San Francisco. It so suits you.

Third - Did President Bush say "maintaining the culture"? If not, why do you give his administration credit for Sean Hannity's blip? You know, that's one of Michael Savage's three gospels "Borders-Language-Culture". I think border security is essential for national security. I'm glad the administration is doing something about it. From the speech yesterday, it sounded as though Bush has already done a lot to re-inforce the borders. That's comforting. And it's comforting to know he wants to do more.

I certainly don't think this administration is racist at all. Bush was governor of Texas and was beloved there - by the immigrant population as well as the natives - according to the votes he received. He was a unifier in Texas. He has been slow to act on the border issue. He speaks Spanish in his speeches, for the love of Pete. He sees the value of immigration. Give the guy some credit.

I think that most of the central valley would disagree with your assessment of tolerance as would a great deal of the LA area. I also think that there is a great divide between the north and the south in California itself and what their tolerant of and supportive of....water alone was a HUGE divisive issue when we were there.

By the way, congrats on your slashdot article! Quite a holiday gift!

Sean Hannity thought the President made references to "Maintaining the culture". Obviously, like all of the other theo-con religious issues there is a set of acknowledged "code words" that mean "we hate gays" or whatever crap they want to spin today. Obviously his speech was loaded up with "code words" for the base and Hannity picked up on it.

As to divisiveness in California. Absolutely it's there. But the last time I saw a two story tall rebel flag it was in South Carolina. And the last time I saw a billboard with some black faces with the text "Don't be caught out at night" it was in Louisiana. Please don't even attempt to bullshit me about how tolerant the south is.

As to Texas loving Bush, please.

I, for one, will never say that any area of the country is tolerant. Sections are tolerant of one issue, but not others. Religion, sexual preference, race, ethnicity, size, you name it. I think that is reality. Is it right? No. Some of Texas loves Bush. Some of California loves him too. Some of everywhere loves him. Some of everywhere hates him too.

Theocon - check out the definition in wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocon

I agree. PEOPLE are tolerant or intolerant. Saying it's sections or regions is just divisive. It sounds hateful - mean and hateful. You change hearts by reaching out to people, not drawing lines.

I'm don't care if I'm drawing divisions or not. I want to see our troops home safe out of Iraq, and I want to see the destruction of the conservative movement and the Republican party in it's current form.

Your the one who would push the button to exterminate the sub-humans in Iraq. And I'm the hateful one?

You would restrict the rights of people you have never met to tell them who they can marry and what they can do with their bodies, strictly out of hate and fear. And I'm the hateful one?

Is this all you have now? This hateful stuff? I know it comes from Hannity and Limbaugh, but seriously, it's all you have? Can you at least try to muster some defense of your beloved God/King president? All you seem to be able to do is to attack the messenger with personal smears.

I just feel like your anger and hatred are misguided. You think the conservative movement and the current form of the Republican party are more worthy of destruction than foreign terrorists who want to bring a machete to your throat?! That's insanity. There is NO religious freedom in the world they want. YOU would not be free to say aloud that your are an athiest. The alternative to conversion to "Allah Ackbar" would be death!

As for reproductive rights and my willingness to restrict them - it may be a purely gutteral, emotional response, intensified by the fact that I have preschoolers, but people like Susan Smith should NEVER . . . EVER be allowed to reproduce again. In the case of a miraculous conception, the child should be removed immediately. I think of those two little kids, strapped into their carseats as their mommy puts the car into neutral and runs crying away from them. The car slides into the pond and those precious babies look out the window and call, "Mommy! Mommy!" Then the little one starts to cry and the bigger one tries to get out of his carseat and they reach for each other and look again for mommy, who is already down the road, concocting her story of abduction. The water rises quickly, but not too quickly. I read that it took 6 minutes for the car to submerge. Six minutes. And then longer for the kids' lungs to actually fill up and drown them.

Do I hate her? No. She's clearly insane.

Should she be put to death? Yes. By drowning.

I wasn't judge or jury on the case though, which is probably a good thing. We have a sound, principled, un-emotional judicial system and Susan Smith is in prison.

Should she be allowed to have children again?

Yep, there's my hatred and fear. I HATE that she killed those kids. Put the actions in motion and followed through by allowing them to die. I FEAR that she is capable of doing it again.

I think that's justified.

And as for pointing out that you sound hateful and divisive - I've been saying that for well over a year. I remember actually saying that you sounded like a "bitter bitter angry man" last year and suggesting you take a break from politics.

No, you've been saying I'm a traitor for over a year. But now you aren't saying it? Why? Because you are now in the vast minority as a blind supporter of this war.

And, once again, you attack me, as the messenger, personally.

Though I must say you finally did bring up some kind of point. Which is the usual, unrealistic, fear that sheeple on the right feel about terrorists. For whatever reasons people feel that some terrorist is going to pop out a trash can on their way from the suburban ranch house the wal mart.

Yeah, I absolutely feel that having a party in power who guts public agencies, starts illegal wars, drops white phospor on civilians, passes laws that create unlimited powers to invade our privacy, destroy our economy, divide our citizens, shoots abortion clinic doctors, hunts gay people, tries to force religion down everyones throats, tries to restrict our reproductive rights, and so on and so on, is far more of a threat than a few terrorists.

Anyway, whatever... Frankly listening to you drone on about how much you think I'm an un-American traitorous liberal and mana, mana, just makes me think...

http://www.soundamerica.com/sounds/themes/Movie-TV-Radio_Related/manamana.wav

I'm glad to know that saying you sound mean and hateful hurts your feelings. Although, actually, I thought that was the tone you were going for. I was just pointing it out.

Why wouldn't you think that terrorists would come into this country to do us harm? Seriously. They already have. We know they want to. You really don't think they're a threat?

It's not that you "hurt my feelings". It's more that you provide the sort of daily "right wing fanatic" thing. Every time I listen to Hannity, or Limbaugh, or Fox, I find myself wondering, who believes this shit?

Like who actually believes we are winning in Iraq? Or who believes bullshit like "we are fighting the war over there so we don't fight it here"? Or who believes their chances of dying in a terrorist attack are far better than winning the lottery (they aren't)? Or who believes there is a war against Christmas? And, then I remember, it's you.

My father was a rabid right winger who would talk all the time about nuclear annihilation at the hands of the red menace. I remember seeing films like "Red Dawn" and thinking, "yeah, that's it, they will invade and subjugate us". Years later I was working with a bunch of Russian immigrants and we talked over lunch about "Red Dawn" and laughed and laughed. It was simple, unrealistic fear mongering meant to scare people who live in ignorance. There was just no way that we were ever going to be invaded by the Soviet Union.

Bush is not God. He isn't Christianity. He isn't worthy of your blind faith. He is lying to you on a daily basis. He purposely overstates the terrorist threat to have you living in fear so that you won't question his horrible foreign and domestic policies.

It's amazing, the mis-perceptions we have about each other. I think you're a left-wing fanatic by your posts. That you're completely intolerant of anyone who doesn't believe as you do.

Then Lori calls me on it. I hear that you do read the bible as a reference, along with all your other literature. And that you do have Christian friends - maybe even Republican ones. From your writing, I would never see that balance and I do paint you with broad strokes.

I know I represent the right wing for you, too. But I certainly don't see myself as a fanatic. We are members of one the most open, liberal Christian churches that I know of. You and I would probably agree on a lot of social issues, but since you throw me in with the "sheeple" and I see you as a closed off left-winger, we don't ever get past that and discuss the common ground.

Common ground is boring though. I'm fine with arguing the differences.

That being said, Bush certainly doesn't equal God to me. He's not even my ideal leader, but I still think he was better than the alternative

Jacqueline, you are the only person to ever, ever, call me a traitor. I have a lot of friends, and even some enemies, but you are the only person on the face of the planet who has ever called me a traitor and accused me of actively aiding our enemies in hurting our country. It was mean, vicious and hurtful, and you and the people that you listen to think it's funny to call people traitors. You are out of touch with how your views and actions effect real people in the real world.

Look at your last statement and think on that. I'm not the extremist here.

I'm an extremist because I don't think Bush is God, but I do think he was a better choice than Kerry?

I don't see us meeting on a common ground, but I wish we could.

Lastly, I pointed out that your loud angry protests were aiding the enemy. You put the name "traitor" on it and I finally could not argue with the definition. I do not think it's funny. At all. The real people in the real world who are in the most danger from it are the soldiers overseas who become the target of the backlash. I assume your response would be to bring them home and get them out of there so they're here - safe with us.

But I could be wrong.

"It often takes more courage to change one's opinion than to stick to it."
--------------Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

"It often takes more courage to change one's opinion than to stick to it."

Yeah, support for the war has dropped from, what 60% to now in the low 30s. That means 30% of people have had the courage to face the reality that we need to extricate ourselves from Iraq.

Are you thinking about taking the courageous leap?

Don't think that your calling people traitors is funny? You said that Coulter was funny and she has a whole book calling people traitors. And recently she said that anyone to the left of Schmidt is a traitor. How about you? Do you think Murtha is a coward? If not you have been called a traitor by the noted transexual plagarist.