The New Road

so much nutiness...

Pharyngula posted an email with '50 simple proofs' of the existence of God. They are actually much less convincing than most of the traditional pro-creator arguments (e.g. watchmaker). Of course, many of those argue for a divine but not specifically Jesus or the Judeo-Christian God, which would be inadequate in this case.

Anywho, figured I would pick apart a few of tho ones I find the most disingenuous.

Science can only be the detector of certain things. You cannot scientifically detect emotion, memory, thoughts etc., though scientifically we must.. These things which do not consist of matter are beyond the detection of science.

Actually, all those things do exist and are detectable by science. A case in point is a recent announcement of an engineer hooking up a neural interface to a second life avatar.

Evolution has never been proved, which is why we call it the 'theory of evolution'. It's a fairy tale for grown ups!

That silly theory of gravity is just a theory as well. Gravity is just people being negative about flying.

How much of the atheist's faith relies on anger with God as opposed to genuine disbelief in God?

Zero. I can be annoyed by Christians though. But that's not what makes me an atheist. I'm an atheist because there is no God.

What created God? What came first, the chicken or the egg? I am not going to deny the existence of the chicken or the egg, merely because I don't understand or know what came first. I don't care - they both exist!

I'm not sure how this proves God. But it is a compelling argument against God. How is it hat something infinitely complex blinked into existence out of nothing?

We are willing to believe in physically unseen waves that exist through the air, operating physical forces & appliances to work, yet not supernatural God forces being responsible for the same.

Once again, these things are real and testable. God is not real and is not testable. You can't come up with a test that proves (or disproves) God.

Our 'inventor' of evolution, Mr. Charles Darwin had this to say to Lady Hope when he was almost bedridden for 3 months before he died; "I was a young man with unfathomed ideas. I threw out queries, suggestions. wondering all the time over everything, and to my astonishment the ideas took like wildfire - people made a religion of them." Darwin then asked Lady Hope to speak to neighbours the next day. "What shall I speak about?" She asked. He replied; "Christ Jesus and his salvation. Is that not the best theme?"

Wow. It sounds like Darwin was a Southern Baptist. He wasn't. The story is an urban legend without any proof.

Where do our moral values held within our conscience come from? If the atheist is right, why then would we care about what we did?! If there is no God, then we've no-one to be accountable to. ... If man has evolved from an animal, why doesn't he behave like an animal? Yet man is civilized.

This argument I find the most sad. All communal animals are civilized enough to work together in groups without fighting without cause. The process of evolution has created this benefit because animals that work together are more likely to survive and reproduce than those that fight and kill other community members without cause.

Give us a little credit, will you? I don't have to believe in God to be a nice guy. And I think it's sad that you are saying that people who don't believe in God should be going out on killing sprees.

Many people have died for their faith. Would they be prepared to do this for a lie?!

Unfortunately, yes.

From the birth of science through to today, there is no evidence to claim that Christianity & science are in opposition. Many first scientists were Christians; Francis Bacon, Issaac Newton, Robert Boyle, to name a few, along with the many who stand by their work & faith today.

It's nice to hear about Christianity and Science not being in conflict. If that's the case, then why this email?

That being said, science does tell us that the earth is younger than the sun, which is direct conflict with Genesis 1.

Albert Einstein said; "A legitimate conflict between science & religion cannot exist. Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind".

Einstein's personal definition of 'religion' was more about spirituality. He apparently was relying on educated people to interpret his words and understand his nuances. I think he expected too much of some people.

Science is constantly recorrecting its findings. Past theories contradict certain beliefs which are held today. Our present 'discoveries' may change again in the future to rediscover how we originally came into existence.

'Recorrecting'? Is that even a word? Anyway, yes, science changes. That's a good thing. Our understanding of Christianity has also changed. People used to use the bible to justify slavery. They don't do that now. In fact, it looks like evangelical Christianity is evolving again to focus more on facing the problems of poverty and homelessness (an effort I wholeheartedly support) rather than in foreign and domestic politics.

It is easier to believe that God created something out of nothing than it is to believe that nothing created something out of nothing.

Wow, now we are getting to the heart of the matter. This is a stunning admission of what's really at the core of faith. Just because something is easier to understand doesn't make it right. People used to think that bloodletting worked, because it was easy to think that way. Of course, it was wrong, which we were able to figure out because of science, and we are able to effectively treat disease because of that.

In this case easier is subjective. I find it difficult to believe in the existence of a single omni-powerful superbeing that has control over everything down to the spin of every electron. And that such a superbeing would be interested in the day-to-day issues I have in my own life.

We cannot confuse God with man. With God in the equation, all things, including miracles are possible. If God is God, he is Creator of all, inclusive of scientific law. He is Creator of matter & spirit.

How is this a proof of God? It pre-requires a belief in God.

God has proved himself to us in numerous ways, all around us. The atheist needs to put his glasses on. What more can God possibly do if man has shut his eyes to him?

I have my glasses on and, nope, no God here. What more can God do? Show himself. Prove himself. Answer my questions. Physically appear.

If we are the product of evolution - by sheer accident, chance, then we are still evolving. Does it just so happen that we exist here today with everything so finely tuned for our living. as we now have it?

First off, evolution doesn't depend on random chance. We are tuned to this planet because we (or our ancestors) have been here for billions of years. Besides that, try an experiment, move to another country, or to the poles, and see how well you are adapted to that climate. If the world was designed for us wouldn't the poles be the same temperature as the equator? Why can't we live naturally at the poles?

Jesus Christ is either who he says he is, or he is the biggest con man history has ever known.

I'm going with, er... plan b. This argument works on the premise that I am unwilling to call Jesus a con man. Wrong again! Jesus was a con man. Jesus was a con man. The Pope is a con man, priests are con men, pastors are con-people, evangelicals are con-folk. Etc. Etc. Even a con-person can believe in what they are selling. But just because you believe it doesn't make it so.

Listen, once again, I'm not anti-Christian. You can believe what you want to believe. But if you want to convince me you are having to do a hell of a lot better than this. I've watched a parent, in-law and friends be ravaged and die from horrible diseases. And that didn't cause me to turn to Christianity? Why? Because I can't find solace in a lie. No matter how easy some people find it to believe.

If you don't want me to criticize your religion, then don't try and sell it to me. Don't get up in my grill about being anti-Christian because I criticize the ridiculous ideas you are peddling.